- On the pro side, it will cut the required time down compared to, say, stand = regiment
- Con: Small number of units may lead to "everything up front"
07 August 2011
The Pits and the Pendulum
I have been thinking through the "1 stand = 1 Brigade idea.
02 August 2011
01 August 2011
Blinds, time and uncertainty
We have to have uncertainty. This has special importance for Mars-la-Tour, where the key to the battle was Bazaine's uncertainty as to the Prussian forces blocking him, and the Prussian uncertainty as to the actual location of the French army.
I have written earlier of the use of blinds, which I still quite like in general The problem they present for us are twofold. First, they add time; second they take figures off the table making for both a less attractive table and an issue of storage on side table.
The minimalist way to deal with this is to place figures on the table for all possible units. For convenience, reveals will be by entire corps. Unrevealed units can be kept in a compact and easy-to-maneuver mass. A simple set of reveal rules can then be used to require (or allow) a unit to deploy into its true, revealed formation. Once revealed, it will be far simpler if the unit then stays revealed for the balance of the game.
These rules will only be interesting, I suspect, only when there are at least two Corps on a side. Looking at the war in general, that means are looking at rules for 3 historical battles:
While one should be able to play the exact historical OBs, I think for replay value it will also be desirable to have some sort of randomization mechanism to alter the OBs so total enemy forces faced are as uncertain as their locations.
I have written earlier of the use of blinds, which I still quite like in general The problem they present for us are twofold. First, they add time; second they take figures off the table making for both a less attractive table and an issue of storage on side table.
The minimalist way to deal with this is to place figures on the table for all possible units. For convenience, reveals will be by entire corps. Unrevealed units can be kept in a compact and easy-to-maneuver mass. A simple set of reveal rules can then be used to require (or allow) a unit to deploy into its true, revealed formation. Once revealed, it will be far simpler if the unit then stays revealed for the balance of the game.
These rules will only be interesting, I suspect, only when there are at least two Corps on a side. Looking at the war in general, that means are looking at rules for 3 historical battles:
- Mars-la-Tour
- Gravelotte-St. Privat
- Sedan
- Mas-la-Tour through Gravelotte-St. Privat as a three day campaign.
While one should be able to play the exact historical OBs, I think for replay value it will also be desirable to have some sort of randomization mechanism to alter the OBs so total enemy forces faced are as uncertain as their locations.
Well, that's not going to work
Let me walk through a little calculation I just did
Six seconds!! I've managed games with that many stands where I could do that, but only where the stand is a unit of number and the real decision applies to a multi-stand unit - at around 20-30 seconds for each unit for each phase I think we actually have enough time. And I am a fast player.
How can we mitigate all this. Well, we can go to simultaneous movement. If we get things clean enough I think it can be managed while keeping up the stream of decisions. But this is a minor point; simultaneous turns can be more complex that Igo-yougo.
Another (simpler) approach is to cut the stand count and simplify the usage. This may need a scale change as well, but lets think about it.
So, here's an alternative. We have cut the number of stands per division in two, and deleted or pushed to army the attached and logistics. With a division at two stands, it really has three or four formations -- meaning the decision points are significantly reduced. I have also generated two types of artillery stand - one with one gun and one with two. Lets see how it looks:
One thing I like here is the ratio of half infantry and half support. We still have some issues of division frontage and ground scale. I'll look a that next.
| 3 | hours in the game | |||
| 180 | minutes in the game | |||
| 6 | turns (2 hours/turn) | |||
| 30 | which works out to minutes/turn | |||
| 1800 | which is second/turn | |||
| 100 | stands for each player | |||
| 18 | so we have seconds/stand each turn | |||
| 3 | phases/turn as an assumption (we will think about how that allocates out) | |||
| 6 | giving seconds/stand-phase |
Six seconds!! I've managed games with that many stands where I could do that, but only where the stand is a unit of number and the real decision applies to a multi-stand unit - at around 20-30 seconds for each unit for each phase I think we actually have enough time. And I am a fast player.
How can we mitigate all this. Well, we can go to simultaneous movement. If we get things clean enough I think it can be managed while keeping up the stream of decisions. But this is a minor point; simultaneous turns can be more complex that Igo-yougo.
Another (simpler) approach is to cut the stand count and simplify the usage. This may need a scale change as well, but lets think about it.
So, here's an alternative. We have cut the number of stands per division in two, and deleted or pushed to army the attached and logistics. With a division at two stands, it really has three or four formations -- meaning the decision points are significantly reduced. I have also generated two types of artillery stand - one with one gun and one with two. Lets see how it looks:
| French | Stands | Figures | Type | Basing | |
| Corps Command | 1 | 1 | Mounted command | 30mm round | |
| Infantry | 6 | 36 | Line Infantry | 40x30 | |
| 6 | Light Infantry | 2 on one above per div | |||
| 3 | Foot command | on one above per div | |||
| Cavalry | 1 | 6 | Hussar and Lancers | 40x30 | |
| Heavy Artillery | 1 | 1 | Guns (with crew) | 30x30 | |
| Light Artillery | 1 | 2 | Guns (with crew) | 40x30 | |
| Horse Artillery | 1 | 1 | Guns (with crew) | 30x30 | |
| Mitrailleus | 1 | 1 | MG all up | 30x30 | |
| Total | 12 | ||||
| German | Stands | Figures | Type | Basing | |
| Corps Command | 1 | 1 | Mounted command | 30mm round | |
| Infantry | 4 | 32 | Line Infantry | 40x30 | |
| 2 | Foot command | on one above per div | |||
| Heavy Artillery | 1 | 2 | Guns (with crew) | 40x30 | |
| Light Artillery | 1 | 2 | Guns (with crew) | 40x30 | |
| Horse Artillery | 1 | 1 | Guns (with crew) | 30x30 | |
| Total | 8 |
One thing I like here is the ratio of half infantry and half support. We still have some issues of division frontage and ground scale. I'll look a that next.
Comparing two Corps - French
For the Army of the Rhine:
Lets vacillate a little, and put the French on a standing of 3 40x30 stands per division. This makes the figures a bit more flexible for other sorts of game. French corps vary a lot, so this is just an example.
So, like the Germans, corps command stand with a mounted officer.
Line infantry, 3 divisions each of 3 stands of 8 figures; one stand in each division gets an officer figures to mark it as a command stand.
Light infantry are three battalions, about 2000 men --Much like the Jaegers, and with the same caveats attached.
The French corps has a whole division of cavalry, totaling 16 squadrons. This easily justifies (based on our earlier calculations) a division with 2 brigade stands.
French divisional batteries were generally 4 pdr; according to Weigle half the reserve artillery for this Corps is 12pdr. So, 8 batteries of 4-pdr, 6 batteries of 12-pdr, 2 or Horse artillery, and 3 of Mitrailleus. There is no nice, integer way to split this up. Lets try 3 stands of 4-pdr, 1 of horse, 1 of heavy, and 1 of Mitrailleus
A single logistics stand could represent both the pontoon bridge and the equipment for the pioneer.
So, the table - remembering that there is no "standard" corps structure. Still with 5 Corps at Mars-la-Tour we ar still going to be looking at around 100 stands.
V Army Corps: Général de Failly
lst Division: Général Goze
lst Brigade: Général Saurin
llth Line Regiment (3)
46th Line Regiment (3)
4th Légère Battalion (l)
2nd Brigade: Général Baron Nicolas-Nicolas
6lst Line Regiment (3)
86th Line Regiment (3)
Artillery: Lt. Colonel Rolland
5/6th Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
6/6th Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
7/6th Artillery Regiment (6 Mitrailleus)
2nd Engineer Regiment (l co)
2nd Division: Général de l'Abadie d'Aydrien
lst Brigade: Général Lapasset
84th Line Regiment (3)
97th Line Regiment (3)
l4th Légère Battalion (l)
2nd Brigade: Général de Maussion
49th Line Regiment (3)
88th Line Regiment (3)
Artillery: Lt. Colonel Bougault
7/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
8/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
5/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 Mitrailleus)
2nd Engineer Regiment (l co)
3rd Division: Général Guyol de Lespart
lst Brigade: Général Abbatucei
l7th Line Regiment (3)
27th Line Regiment (3)
l9th Légère Battalion (l)
2nd Brigade: Général de Fontanges de Couzan
30th Line Regiment (3)
68th Line Regiment (3)
Artillery: Lt. Colonel Montel
ll/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
l2/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
9/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 Mitrailleus)
2nd Engineer Regiment (l co)
Calvary Division: Général Brahaut
lst Brigade: Général Viscomte de Pierre de Bernis
5th Hussar Regiment (4)
l2th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (4)
2nd Brigade: Général de la Mortière
3rd Lancer Regiment (4)
5th Lancer Regiment (4)
Artillery Reserve:
6/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
l0/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
ll/l0th Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
ll/l4th Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
5/20th Horse Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
6/20th (Horse? according to Weigle) Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
Engineering Reserve:
2nd Engineer Regiment (l co)
Sapper Detachment
lst Division: Général Goze
lst Brigade: Général Saurin
llth Line Regiment (3)
46th Line Regiment (3)
4th Légère Battalion (l)
2nd Brigade: Général Baron Nicolas-Nicolas
6lst Line Regiment (3)
86th Line Regiment (3)
Artillery: Lt. Colonel Rolland
5/6th Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
6/6th Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
7/6th Artillery Regiment (6 Mitrailleus)
2nd Engineer Regiment (l co)
2nd Division: Général de l'Abadie d'Aydrien
lst Brigade: Général Lapasset
84th Line Regiment (3)
97th Line Regiment (3)
l4th Légère Battalion (l)
2nd Brigade: Général de Maussion
49th Line Regiment (3)
88th Line Regiment (3)
Artillery: Lt. Colonel Bougault
7/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
8/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
5/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 Mitrailleus)
2nd Engineer Regiment (l co)
3rd Division: Général Guyol de Lespart
lst Brigade: Général Abbatucei
l7th Line Regiment (3)
27th Line Regiment (3)
l9th Légère Battalion (l)
2nd Brigade: Général de Fontanges de Couzan
30th Line Regiment (3)
68th Line Regiment (3)
Artillery: Lt. Colonel Montel
ll/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
l2/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
9/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 Mitrailleus)
2nd Engineer Regiment (l co)
Calvary Division: Général Brahaut
lst Brigade: Général Viscomte de Pierre de Bernis
5th Hussar Regiment (4)
l2th Chasseur à Cheval Regiment (4)
2nd Brigade: Général de la Mortière
3rd Lancer Regiment (4)
5th Lancer Regiment (4)
Artillery Reserve:
6/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
l0/2nd Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
ll/l0th Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
ll/l4th Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
5/20th Horse Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
6/20th (Horse? according to Weigle) Artillery Regiment (6 guns)
Engineering Reserve:
2nd Engineer Regiment (l co)
Sapper Detachment
Lets vacillate a little, and put the French on a standing of 3 40x30 stands per division. This makes the figures a bit more flexible for other sorts of game. French corps vary a lot, so this is just an example.
So, like the Germans, corps command stand with a mounted officer.
Line infantry, 3 divisions each of 3 stands of 8 figures; one stand in each division gets an officer figures to mark it as a command stand.
Light infantry are three battalions, about 2000 men --Much like the Jaegers, and with the same caveats attached.
The French corps has a whole division of cavalry, totaling 16 squadrons. This easily justifies (based on our earlier calculations) a division with 2 brigade stands.
French divisional batteries were generally 4 pdr; according to Weigle half the reserve artillery for this Corps is 12pdr. So, 8 batteries of 4-pdr, 6 batteries of 12-pdr, 2 or Horse artillery, and 3 of Mitrailleus. There is no nice, integer way to split this up. Lets try 3 stands of 4-pdr, 1 of horse, 1 of heavy, and 1 of Mitrailleus
A single logistics stand could represent both the pontoon bridge and the equipment for the pioneer.
So, the table - remembering that there is no "standard" corps structure. Still with 5 Corps at Mars-la-Tour we ar still going to be looking at around 100 stands.
| Type | Stands | Figures | Type | |||||||||
| Corps Command | 1 | 1 | Mounted command | |||||||||
| Infantry | 9 | 72 | Line Infantry | |||||||||
| 3 | Foot command | |||||||||||
| Cavalry | 2 | 6 | Hussar and Lancers | |||||||||
| Light Inf | 1 | 6 | Light | |||||||||
| Heavy Artillery | 1 | 1 | Guns (with crew) | |||||||||
| Light Artillery | 3 | 2 | Guns (with crew) | |||||||||
| Horse Artillery | 1 | 1 | Guns (with crew) | |||||||||
| Mitrailleus | 1 | 1 | Mg with crew | |||||||||
| Total | 19 |
Comparing two Corps - German
Lets take look at two Corps, one French and one Prussian, based on the Nafziger OBs for the start-of-August paper strengths, rather than one showed up at Mars-la-Tour.
For the North German Confederation:
In past posts, I have been looking at the assets from a Divisional level. However, we have already decided that the division (for a game at this level) will have to be viewed as a "disposable" asset. It may have multiple bases but we don't want any ability on the part of the corps player to mess with its internal structure. I think we can achieve this fastest by bumping the non-infantry divisional assets (in as much as they might make a difference) up to corps. Lets enumerate stands, and see how it holds up.
First, corps command stand with a mounted officer.
Line infantry, 2 divisions each of 4 stands of 8 figures; one stand in each division gets an officer figures to mark it as a command stand.
Jägers are two battalions, about 2000 men -- a shame not to represent them. On the downside, they would add decision points for the corps; on the upside as say one 30x30 stand the would let the corps have a "detachment" capability.
The corps has, in total, 8 squadrons of dragoons. This would make it reasonable to have a corps cavalry brigade of one stand. Like the Jägers , not core but interesting.
There are a total of 6 batteries of heavy, 6 batteries of light, and 2 batteries of horse artillery. The role of horse artillery at Mars-la-Tour makes it very important to represent. I think it makes sense to make a foot artillery stand represent 3 batteries, but allow a stand for 2 horse batteries, with the difference in the factors.
A single logistics stand could represent both the pontoon bridge and the equipment for the pioneer companies.
So, a table of what this means:
One might question the benefit from the limbers - they do add beef to a march column but will also add clutter. With a two hour turn deployment time is not a big factor. Screw-ups with the placement of the pontoon or logistics resources can be important and so I want to leave that in (Canrobert was unable to dig in at St. Privat because the wagons with the entrenching equipment were stuck in Metz.). We are still talking 18 stands for a corps, of which there were roughly seven at Gravellotte/St.Privat. 140 stands just for infantry corps -- do I need to cut down a level? Lets look at the French while we consider it.
For the North German Confederation:
IV Army Corps: General der Infanterie von Alvensleben I
7th Division: Generallieutenant von von Gross gen. von Schzhoff
l3th Brigade: Generalmajor von Borries
lst Magdeburg Infantry Regiment #26 (3)
3rd Magdeburg Infantry Regiment #66 (3)
l4th Brigade: Generalmajor von Zychlinski
2nd Magdeburg Infantry Regiment #27 (3)
Anhalt Infantry Regiment #93 (3)
Attached:
Magdeburg Jäger Battalion #4 (l)
Westphalian Dragoon Regiment #7 (4)
3rd Feld Pionier Company
lst Sanitary Detachment
Artillery: Oberstlieutenant von Freyhold
lst Foot Batallion Magdeburg Field Artillery #4
lst Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
2nd Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
lst Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
2nd Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
8th Division: Generallieutenant von Schöler
l5th Brigade: Generalmajor von von Keszler
lst Thuringian Infantry Regiment #3l (3)
3rd Thuringian Infantry Regiment #7l (3)
l2th Brigade: Oberst von Schessler
Schleiswig-Holstein Fusilier Regiment #86 (3)
7th Thuringian Infantry Regiment #96 (3)
Attached:
Thuringian Hussar Regiment # (4)
lst Feld Pionier Company
2nd Sanitary Detachment
Artillery: Major von Glissa
2nd Foot Batallion Magdeburg Field Artillery #4
3rd Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
4th Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
3rd Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
4th Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
Corps Artillery: Oberst Crusius
Horse Battalion, Magdeburg Field Artillery #4
2nd Horse Battery (6 guns)
3rd Horse Battery (6 guns)
3rd Foot Batallion Magdeburg Field Artillery #4
5th Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
6th Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
5th Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
6th Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
Other Corps Assets
3rd Sanitary Detachment
Column Battalion, Magdeburg Field Artillery Regiment
l/,2/,3/,4/,5/Artillery Munitions Column
l/,2/,3/,4/Infantry Munitions Column
Pontoon Column
Magdeburg Train Battalion #4
Hospital Depot
Horse Depot
Field Bakery Column
l/,2/,3/,4/,5/Provision Columns
l/,2/,3,4/,5/,6/,7/,8/,9/,l0/,ll/,l2/Field Hospital
Escort Squadron
7th Division: Generallieutenant von von Gross gen. von Schzhoff
l3th Brigade: Generalmajor von Borries
lst Magdeburg Infantry Regiment #26 (3)
3rd Magdeburg Infantry Regiment #66 (3)
l4th Brigade: Generalmajor von Zychlinski
2nd Magdeburg Infantry Regiment #27 (3)
Anhalt Infantry Regiment #93 (3)
Attached:
Magdeburg Jäger Battalion #4 (l)
Westphalian Dragoon Regiment #7 (4)
3rd Feld Pionier Company
lst Sanitary Detachment
Artillery: Oberstlieutenant von Freyhold
lst Foot Batallion Magdeburg Field Artillery #4
lst Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
2nd Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
lst Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
2nd Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
8th Division: Generallieutenant von Schöler
l5th Brigade: Generalmajor von von Keszler
lst Thuringian Infantry Regiment #3l (3)
3rd Thuringian Infantry Regiment #7l (3)
l2th Brigade: Oberst von Schessler
Schleiswig-Holstein Fusilier Regiment #86 (3)
7th Thuringian Infantry Regiment #96 (3)
Attached:
Thuringian Hussar Regiment # (4)
lst Feld Pionier Company
2nd Sanitary Detachment
Artillery: Major von Glissa
2nd Foot Batallion Magdeburg Field Artillery #4
3rd Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
4th Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
3rd Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
4th Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
Corps Artillery: Oberst Crusius
Horse Battalion, Magdeburg Field Artillery #4
2nd Horse Battery (6 guns)
3rd Horse Battery (6 guns)
3rd Foot Batallion Magdeburg Field Artillery #4
5th Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
6th Heavy Foot Battery (6 guns)
5th Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
6th Light Foot Battery (6 guns)
Other Corps Assets
3rd Sanitary Detachment
Column Battalion, Magdeburg Field Artillery Regiment
l/,2/,3/,4/,5/Artillery Munitions Column
l/,2/,3/,4/Infantry Munitions Column
Pontoon Column
Magdeburg Train Battalion #4
Hospital Depot
Horse Depot
Field Bakery Column
l/,2/,3/,4/,5/Provision Columns
l/,2/,3,4/,5/,6/,7/,8/,9/,l0/,ll/,l2/Field Hospital
Escort Squadron
In past posts, I have been looking at the assets from a Divisional level. However, we have already decided that the division (for a game at this level) will have to be viewed as a "disposable" asset. It may have multiple bases but we don't want any ability on the part of the corps player to mess with its internal structure. I think we can achieve this fastest by bumping the non-infantry divisional assets (in as much as they might make a difference) up to corps. Lets enumerate stands, and see how it holds up.
First, corps command stand with a mounted officer.
Line infantry, 2 divisions each of 4 stands of 8 figures; one stand in each division gets an officer figures to mark it as a command stand.
Jägers are two battalions, about 2000 men -- a shame not to represent them. On the downside, they would add decision points for the corps; on the upside as say one 30x30 stand the would let the corps have a "detachment" capability.
The corps has, in total, 8 squadrons of dragoons. This would make it reasonable to have a corps cavalry brigade of one stand. Like the Jägers , not core but interesting.
There are a total of 6 batteries of heavy, 6 batteries of light, and 2 batteries of horse artillery. The role of horse artillery at Mars-la-Tour makes it very important to represent. I think it makes sense to make a foot artillery stand represent 3 batteries, but allow a stand for 2 horse batteries, with the difference in the factors.
A single logistics stand could represent both the pontoon bridge and the equipment for the pioneer companies.
So, a table of what this means:
| Type | Stands | Figures | Type | |
| Corps Command | 1 | 1 | Mounted command | |
| Infantry | 8 | 64 | Line Infantry | |
| 2 | Foot command | |||
| Attached cavalry | 1 | 3 | Dragoons | |
| Jaegers | 1 | 6 | Jaegers | |
| Heavy Artillery | 2 | 2 | Guns (with crew) | |
| Light Artillery | 2 | 2 | Guns (with crew) | |
| Horse Artillery | 1 | 1 | Guns (with crew) | |
| Foot Limber | 2 | 2 | Limbers (all up) | |
| Horse Limber | 1 | 1 | Limbers (all up) | |
| Wagon (or pontoons) | 1 | 1 | Logistics | |
| Total | 20 |
One might question the benefit from the limbers - they do add beef to a march column but will also add clutter. With a two hour turn deployment time is not a big factor. Screw-ups with the placement of the pontoon or logistics resources can be important and so I want to leave that in (Canrobert was unable to dig in at St. Privat because the wagons with the entrenching equipment were stuck in Metz.). We are still talking 18 stands for a corps, of which there were roughly seven at Gravellotte/St.Privat. 140 stands just for infantry corps -- do I need to cut down a level? Lets look at the French while we consider it.
Terrain, and time
Back in November I mentioned some time objectives. One of those was to be able to fit the whole event into 4 hours, with 3 hours of play. Implicit in this is the expectation that the game would be played on a club night, so set-up and clean-up have to roll into this time.
So, one of the objectives here has to be a way to dress the table that looks OK for a game, but easy to transport and set up. To quantify that all required terrain must be able to fit into a backpack that can be transported by public transit.
That does not rule out grander constructs, but the design of the game cannot required them in order to work.
So, one of the objectives here has to be a way to dress the table that looks OK for a game, but easy to transport and set up. To quantify that all required terrain must be able to fit into a backpack that can be transported by public transit.
That does not rule out grander constructs, but the design of the game cannot required them in order to work.
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